Russia To Sell 250 Sukhoi-30 Long-Range Fighter Jets To Iran
In what looks to be its next move in the high stakes chess match against the United States, Iran is to purchase 250 Sukhoi-30 long-range fighter jets from Russia as part of a massive multi-billion dollar arms deal. Additionally, Iran will acquire several aerial fuel tankers that will effectively extend the range of the Sukhoi-30 fighters by thousands of kilometers — giving Iran the capability to launch long-range offensive strikes.
The Sukhoi-30 is a dual seat, multi-role fighter jet that has the ability to operate in poor weather conditions at great distances from home base. It has extensive combat capabilities including air patrol, air defense, ground attacks, enemy air defense suppression and air-to-air combat.
While the U.S. and Israel have voiced opposition to Russia against the sale of military equipment to Iran, Russia contends that it reserves the right to sell weapons to Iran provided they are of a defensive nature. A more likely motive than Iranian self-defense capability is no doubt the billions of dollars Iran will pay to Russia.
This move has the potential to severely complicate things for Dick Cheney and Co. who are hellbent on bombing Iran. In addition, it serves to highlight the continual souring of camaraderie between the U.S. and Russia, which all stems back to Bush’s plan to put a missile defense system in Eastern Europe. But I think the biggest thing we can get from this is the understanding that any conflict with Iran will be brutal and horrific, and that we must do whatever is necessary to ensure an armed conflict does not occur.
For some reason does this guy think that the Iranians would be able to get a single jet off the ground in a conflict with the US? Or even convince a single Iranian pilot to try and fly while uner US attack?
I would think Iran would need some sort of anti-aircraft capability to allow their planes to fly which is not going to happen when the stealths take everything out in the first 12 hours of conflict…
Or does this guy think Iran will launch a first strike…not likely..
I for one think we should at least blow up any oil infrastructure Iran has for oil exporting to stop the funding of their insane program to blow up Israel with nukes and start World War III…Sure..we will have to pay a little more at the pump….but that would be a small price to pay to watch their NAZI-like government implode….This government is the ultimate example of the reason America’s founding fathers wanted to separate religion from the state…as religions like islam and the extremeist elements of Christianity and the Jewish religion are just hot beds of insanity with ridiculous beliefs which are very dangerous if left unchecked.. For some reason the Hindus, Buddhists, and non-religious people…don’t seem to have a signifcant number of these extreme and dangerous elements…
Is anyone with me? honk if you hate Islam….!!
PS I have read the English translation of the Koran and the Bible as well as Buddhist ands Hindu lliterature….The bible was bad for violence and genocide ..but I was shocked and revolted by the Koran
my family has now created a dinner table game with the koran…
we pull out the Koran and start reading to see how long one can read in the Koran before you are reading language urging belivers to run out and kill the infidels or maim them or cut off their left hand and right foot….etc.
No one has gotten past 3 pages yet…! we usallly can’t get past 1 page!
I urge everyone to read the Koran.
seems like logic when the US just recently fed the rest of the middle east with weapons worth 100 billion last week.
did anyone shout “HIPOCRACY!!!”
Ahhh… racism is so refreshing… An extremist criticizing other extremists, how cute!
Remember, the pre-emptive strikes state of mind works both way…
And, from a recent survey, a majority of the world (you know, the piece of land outside the US) thinks that the US is the primary threat to world peace.
But maybe you are just another of these loyal Bushies blogger squads that spread the love and peace message of this administration.
Well, tscharner selwob you amaze me lucky you do not speak for all your country are you living in some type of bubble or spent your education playing computer games. F@#K mate you need to see a therapist. How many fighters did your government give “Not Sell to IRAN and now endanger
every one. Heres a tip go stand in a field and shut up for a while maybe you will hear the sound of your own govenment lying to you.
Get Smart You Fool
I sincerely doubt that these are an attempt to defend against American invasion. While the Su-30 is a fine aircraft, Iran cannot match up to American technology, like: stealth, AWACS, long-range cruise missiles, satellite surveillance, etc. etc.
These are probably more of a deterrent against a smaller threat, possibly like Israel. They would certainly be enough to stop Isreal from waltzing into Iran and conducting a strike on nuclear facilities.
> Is anyone with me? honk if you hate Islam….!!
> did anyone shout “HIPOCRACY!!!”
no – hippos are not suitable leaders :/
Other than the obvious fact that these are horribly dated fighters that would not last 15 seconds against the US war machine (stealth fighters, advanced drones, flying saucers, laser weapons, satellite weapons), what exactly is everyone upset about? Insane maniacal anti-democratic fundamentalists have weapons? Umm, yeah, that’s been the case here too, since the CIA killed Kennedy. Sadly though (for those fundamentalists at odds with OUR fundamentalists, who, really are no more than poster children for corporations), a couple of out dated and expensive fighters from a rather poor trading partner like Russia is not going to do anything but deplete your budget before Halliburton bombs the shit out of you for a couple extra billion dollar no-bid contracts.
My advice to anyone anywhere near any part of the middle east: Move the f*ck [edited for profanity] out ASAP!
rhY
Without an extended commentary on Islam or Persians in general, money spent on an air force in preparation for conflict against USA/Israel is money wasted. Though I don’t necessarily disagree with Brang that Israel’s air force isn’t as dominant as that of the USA, it’s still better than Iran will be able to handle.
“In early 2006, after an exercise involving just eight F-22s in Nevada in Nov. 2005, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Hecker, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron (FS) at Langley AFB, Virginia, commented “We killed 33 F-15Cs and didn’t suffer a single loss. They didn’t see us at all.”[26]
In June 2006 during Exercise Northern Edge (Alaska’s largest joint military training exercise), the F-22A achieved a 144-to-zero kill-to-loss ratio against F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s simulating MiG-29 ‘Fulcrums’, Su-30 ‘Flankers’, and other current front line Russian aircraft, which outnumbered the F-22A 4 to 1 at times.[15][27] The small F-22 force of 12 aircraft generated 49% of the total kills for the exercise, and operated with an unprecedented reliability rate of 97%.[23]
It isn’t a shocker. Russia does the same thing that the US does. When their older air force has been replaced, they sell the old planes to a smaller country to recoup some of the investment. None of those planes have a real threat to anyone. To the people that suggested that they are perhaps a deterrent to Israel attacks, Israel is armed by the US with some of the most advanced weapon systems out there. They have little to fear from these older Russian aircraft
War sells. It doesn’t matter who wins, you can sell weapons to both sides and come out with a nice hefty profit every time. The only losers are the poor people without guns.
Don’t be so certain of the superiority of the USs weapons, and those stats by James are just propaganda. The russians have a history of making pretty good weapons systems and held of the US during the whole cold war (if the US had thought they could take them, they would have).
The US still mainly relies on F15s which are OLD technology.
And you don’t know what else they bought of radar and misile systems, the planes were only part of the deal.
Over reliance on technology is a dangerous thing, this is not iraq1 or iraq2 invasion, iran is a way more serious enemy. Stealth is not everything and it is not perfect either. Also remember vietnam and remember the afghanistans 10 year war against the russians? Tech is not everything… (as you can see now as well with iraq2). Attacking iran will be the downfall of the US (probably a good thing imho).
To Tscharner: Please get your head out of your a**…
Props to Ts you are very right, And the irony of a Christian zealot criticizing an entire religion (Islam) over what a FEW people have done is just plain IGNORANCE 80% of people in Iran don’t like their government BUT OH YEAH THERE still ISLAMIC YOU DIP SHIT it is extremists like the ayatollahs and YOU who are going to ruin the world Tscharner
And just because our weapons maybe be superior does not necessarily mean we will win a decisive victory. Maybe you have forgot our budget is stretched thin to the point of breakig, we are already in a costly (man wise and money wise) ongoing struggle in Iraq (which we arnt doing so well last time i checked and they don’t even have TAnkS or aircraft all they have is guerrilla tactics) not to mention Irans formidably standing army of aprox 1 million strong i believe
and furthermore RELIGION is not the cause of this conflict… people use it to get people on there side. Our side uses Christianity… theres uses Islam it is nothing more than propaganda. Religion is only a tool of hate
seems like a smart move, most initial US attacks are all tomahawk driven, not stealth. these planes can attack us warships and carriers much better than their small navy. sure some stealth fighters will get through, but Iran can do much more damage this way. doesn’t look like their backing down at all. the question is, will they go broke trying to defend themselves…
I agree Blank. And as soon as the US stealths attack, a squadron of these new planes will be going straight to Isreal on bombing runs… and the stealths wont be able to kill all these planes without some escaping to bomb Israel.
Iran has too much back from the Russians and Chinese. Any problems with them and its a wrap easy for the US dollar. There is more than one way to fight back against the true Evil Empire (the US). They will dump dollars bringing the $US way down and then we can’t pay the “all volunteer” army to do their bidding since they have mouths at home to feed. Who is gonna work the US military machine when they have to work for peanuts. The old do it for America shit won’t hold much water, US troops will go AWOL in mass similar to the last days of Vietnam.
The Iranians are suckers. Those jets are no better than sitting ducks.
NO STEALTH.
There is no doubt that the U.S. military is the most powerful. In the event of a war between U.S. & Iran, U.S. war machine will inflict heavy damage to Iran’s military & infrastructure. Iran, though, has several advantages in the event of a war with U.S.: 1) American soldiers in Iraq & Afghanistan are easy targets, as they have been for the past 3-4 years. 2) Iran will fight both conventional & non-conventional wars. 3) Iranians are known to be fierce fighters. 4) Iranians will be defending their homeland. 5) Americans will be fighting a war several thousand miles away from home. 6) American public will not support another war. 7) American budget cannot support another long war.
There is no known defense to the Russian made, mobile, anti-ship fast torpedos which Iran posesses.
I searched Sukhoi-30 on the internet. It is a very capable & advanced multirole plane. It first appeared in 1993 Paris airshow. It is not dated technology. In fact, it has a more recent technology than F-15 or F-16 or F-18. The version bought by Iran has French made Avionics & Electronics. It appears to be a formidable plane.
Give the US public just some tiny fact – even if false – and everybody takes it for granted. Learn you fools! Iran has nowhere the money to buy 250 Sukhois….I cannot blame the US public, as the journalists are as uninformed as the public – US, Israeli, British – you cannot buy 250 Su jets for $1 bn….you can buy them for no less than $10bn…and the Russian plants that manufacture these are booked up with oirders from Algir, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Venezuela, India, China an modernization plans fro these jets in Russia….in any case: where is Iran going to get $10 bn to spend on fighters if its defense budget is less than that?
TS, you’re flat out wrong. The combined land, air, sea and space capabilities of the United States military presents an insurmoutable challenge to any nation on the Earth right now from both a conventional and nuclear perspective.
The Soviet Union did not “hold off” the United States during with it’s conventional forces. It used the threat of “mutually assured destruction” to ensure that the two forces never met on an open battlefield.
It is for that very reason that the United States and the Soviet Union met, instead, on various non-conventional fields of battle: North Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan.
Furthermore – pay close attention to what “JAMES” wrote regarding our F-22. The difference between the F-22 and the Su-30 is not the difference between a Ford Taurus and a Ford Mustang. The difference is more like that between Daimler’s new little “smart car”, and an F1 racecar. The technological advantage, coupled with the exhuastive training regimen of western pilots, provide exponential advantages to western technology vs. dated designs. This is not opinion, and the statistics “JAMES” contributed are not fantasy-world Excel models.
To “ARS”, who gives a myriad of reasons as to why the Iranians will prove to be fierce opponents – I point only to the Pacific campaign of the Second World War (remember? Fierce opponents, willing to commit suicide…defending their homelands…and we were thousands of miles from home?) During the Second World War the United States put over 12,000,000 (yes, twelve million) troops in the field in order to fight a global conflict. Think we’re too weak to do it again today?
For those of you resting on the “Budget” argument, you sound absurd. To insinuate that we can’t fight a war with Iran because we can’t afford it is laughable. First off, if we can’t afford it, Iran certianly can’t. Second, at even $500 billion, our war in Iraq is a paltry 3.8% of our yearly GDP. If you don’t think we have the will to ratchet that up to even 10%, and forego things like food stamps, farm subsidies or all the other crap we waste money on in order to defeat Islamo-Facism, you’re not thinking hard enough. “Where there’s a will, there’s a way”.
Furthermore, you’re thinking far too narrowly. Since we’re all talking about some sort of crazy global conflict here, where “unconventional” methods of fighting are used – how about this method? What if we just repudiate all debt owed to the country we’re fighting? That means no interest paid, and we get all our money back. How about the confiscation of assets at gunpoint? Not hard to do when you have the might of the US military behind you.
“Oh, but this will destroy the economy of the United States and the world order will collapse!” Perhaps…but we’re talking about some sort of major conflict here. Remember as well that the strength of many countries – China, Russia, the European Union, etc. rest on the economic relationships they’ve established with the United States. Do you think that China – in a major conflict with the United States – will have much income coming it’s way once Wal Mart stops buying their goods, and we stop paying them interest on their Treasuries? How far will their F/X reserve dollars (you know, the trillion they have stashed) go when we refuse to accept them? What will they do then…wade across the Pacific Ocean, unimpeded, and storm the beaches of Malibu? They’ll probably have to use nuclear weapons, in which case we’re all F’ed. So they won’t.
If it comes to that, each country will need to rest on the strength of it’s naturally endowed resources, and the strength of the technology it already has. That is one reason why Russia has always been hard to defeat, and it’s a good reason China will remain a strong global force. However, the United States is no lightweight…and when push comes to shove, I can be pretty sure that Canada (with all it’s oil sands, metals and other resources) will be fairly comfortable joining our side.
That’s why we win. To those of you who use the “hypocrisy” agument…note to yourself, when smugly pointing out that we’re giving weapons to other Middle Eastern countries, that no two democracies have ever met on the field of battle. We arm the free world. I’m not referring to our little excursions in places like Cambodia or Nicaragua (”nation building exercises”) – I’m referring to the notion of global national conflict.
I could (and would love) to go on and on. I feel pretty good armed with the fine training I received at one of our nations fine Military Academies – so go ahead with your military history analogies.
PS I didn’t go through and check any of this spelling (though I suppose I could have if I had time). If you’re the kind of person whose argumentative strengths lie in the ability to point out the incremental missteps of others, I concede to you.
We dont need sabor waiving at a time like this and anyone contemplating striking Iran definitely will open pandoras box. Does anyone think Russia or China will just blatantly hand over Iran to the U.S. Least case they might not join the battle but I’m sure assist in arms and satelite destruction. Consider also the Persian Gulf is about 250 miles at its widest with the Iranian mountian side overlooking it. I would bet any carrier in the persian gulf is already painted with a number of Russian Sunburns. Plus if you recall Senior Russian aerospace officials admitted that they are testing new SAM missiles against the F-117 that was shot down by Serb forces in 1999. The Russians admitted that the F-117 was being used to test new anti-stealth technology and advanced missiles designed to shoot down U.S. aircraft. Russian researchers are testing components of a new air defense system against the F-117 remains.
We could not leave our fleet in the Persian gulf as it would be a turkey shoot. So this would put our fighters out to sea most likely a good warning to the IRanians if they were attacked. We have destroyed the iraqi infrastructure and oil export. How would the rest of the world view us if we disrupt more oil. What we need to do is get out. Let the Saudi’s and Iraninans devide up Iraq and let peace settle in. Taking out Saddame was the worst thing we ever did.
We have run this war on a credit card to a tune of 700 billion so far. We have a federal deficit from Bush’s past 5 years totaling 1.2 trillion. If we stay in Iraq its going to break us. Is anyone interested in shelling out half thier pay to the military industrial complex just so some rich elite can get richer while he sits back waiving his flag as the poor get killed or injured. I’m sick of this stuff enact a draft, no deferments and see how fast all this changes.
Iran is a user state. No amount of weaponry can detract from the fact that Iran like most of the worlds nations is incapable of building anything more that rudimetary technology on its own. Any strike by Iran that leads to war will quickly result in defeat. Iran is not Nazi Germany. Remember that even today the Nazi war machine could steam roll most of the national defense forces. Why, because unlike Iran they were producers.
Well I got a say something damm important. Even if these Russian aircrafts dont defend Iran’s aerospace they would definitely be able to inflict severe damage to the US. Wanna know how? No matter what the obstacles are, the Iranians would sacrifice their every single life to cause even a minimal damage to the US and its interests and after seeing whats going on in Iraq I think you have a better idea how they will do that. A single plan loaded with mass explosives could send at least hundreds of US soldiers in Iraqi bases flying to hell. So dont be so sure about your adversary unless you see it all happen. Also, I have a message for TSCHARNER: You stupid f***nut- Better mind your own business, retard. The way u comment on other people’s stuff, gives me a good idea how frustrated and psycho kind of a person you are. I really feel pitiful for people like u.
tscharner selwob, You r Dumb A**.
I wonder where you get your education? I think you are not living in the real world. why everyone see this problem very complicated? this is a simple problem but no one willing to solve it with simple way. US use this to dominate the world eventhough they know if US troops pullout from mid east and afghanistan, israel give they occupation lands to palestina then both side happy, why we must use arms to deal with? .. its a big question.
if we look deeper, this is just about oil… this drama has just created to dominated oil source. million life gone just about oil.
Being completely unbias the russians have some missiles that are better than the usa has the moskit and several others but to offset that the usa has 5 times the capacity in missiles on their jets as they are smaller and semi nuke the gblu missiles whilst the usa has no answer to the moskit they did however test in australia with austrailans a missile that reached mach 10 for the first time if this is devoloped into a missile it would give them the edge but will it be in time ? but the stealth fighters are good the only trouble is they dont carry eneough missiles compared to the russian ones but the wat israel defeated the russian radar in syria mabey the usa knows something we dont and the russians and iran would still be worried by that ,iran no matter what it had wouldnt stand a chance against usa if you consider that they fought iraq for 8ys and couldnt defeat them it took the usa a week ,as far as tactics of war goes the usa is very very good as they have shown by the proxy wars they have fought with the proxies backed and armed by russia of course as far as the arabs go well the only thing fierce is their own rhetoric like saddam said there will be rivers of blood ,in fact their were rivers of iraqi running and giving up ,the muslims are sneaky and cowards who only kill defenceless people with terroists and then cry i didnt do it ,if you look at the way israel defeated the five arab armies in a week it tells the real story ,so let them dream of the great this or that but in the end if they pick the usa they will cease to exist and my bet is peace will be much easier considering they are supporting the terroists ,the usa isnt perfect but at least its vision is correct for people to have their own say and peace and to stop these fanatical regimes spreading their filth to the illiterate who dont know any better , i hear on the net all the time about the crap iran is peacfull etc but its mostly from iranians who are not even living there and the facts dispute this ,getting whipped for having a party ,hung for saying something or denying the religion getting hung if you are a woman who has been raped whilst the rapists walk free ,forcing children of 9 to marry ,i mean if you think thats peacefull you need your head read ,you backward idiots ,its true all muslims are not terroists butall terroists are muslims and thatys a fact ,so the fighters from russia wont save you idiots because you cant even save yourselves from these evil regimes and if you think you will defeat the usa your in a dream a bad one just like your religion !!
Make no mistake these russian fighters are very capable indeed in fact up against most usa aircraft they would possibly win ,with faster speed ,more range ,more weapons,and incredible missiles they are downright dangerous ,but if prayer time comes in the middle of a fight that might be a problem for the jihads lol ,however the f22 and other aircraft that the usa is testing with top speeds in the range of mach 6-8 ,are way above what iran could handle if the usa uses them ,yes iran has millions of army etc but thats just a bigger target these days , iran gets its rhetoric from fighting proxy wars undercover but i think it will be different in open conflict especially when the usa has a policy of if overwhelmed it would nuke the opposition on top of that i dont think iran understands just how deadly these gblu bombs are an officer who saw the demo of these reported that it left a hole in the hard coral 1km long and 100ft deep and said they were the most devastating thing he had seen ,it is possible with the goading of iran to the usa to go to war they do have nukes from russia/ china/ n/korea/but that would really give the usa an excuse to wipe them out completely and make no mistake they would without thinking twice ,so i think if they get them the jets iran will if they are ever able to get them off the ground could cause a lot of problems but going on the way usa fights i dont think they will be able to use them and i also think what was seen in iraq is nothing to what iran will get if usa attacks ,they will really do a number on them ! as for all the comments about muslims well im not religious at all i dont believe in fairy stories ,but everyone has a right to believe what they want its when they use religion as a weapon that i have a problem almost 90 per cent of all suicide bombers caught were illiterate in fact they all were told that the bomb wouldnt kill them thats a bit sick in my book and doesnt give islam any honour whatsoever ,if your brain washed from berth to believe an elephant is a god you will ! i think islam is just a way to control society and it looks like iran and the terroists are very extreme in this so the losers are the people and the justification is the religion which is in this day and age a bit backward to say the least ,keeping women like animals is even more so ,but mabey one day they will all get civilised ,the christians went through the same thing once with the crusades but it does appear that islam is not only not tollerant of other religions , but forces its views on everybody else or you die if you dont convert, and this is the downside of muslims a one way street and a great danger for the world .!!
Hey guys i am an Indian.First of all this news of 250 sukhois to iran.I am laughing at all ur discussions coz we have them the su 30mki.We will have about 230 of them.Do you know it will take 10 years for us to reach this number we are having 80 of them at present.So even if iran buys with somehow mobilizing the money it will take the same amount of time or more coz the infrastructure at the HAL where these jets are manufactured under license from Russia will be obviously better than what the Iranians will might have.So the year will be 2020 when they will have these jets in those numbers.
Secondly you guys have a mindset that the Russian weapons are of second rate.i too admit that Russia is not as rich as US but it has nothing to do with the technology.Please find out about the sukhoi 30 fighters in Indian Air Force forums or related websites you will come to know as to why the US and the Israelis are so obset.Mind you our air force operates the most advanced version the SU 30MKI with Indian components.
Now do not say that Indian Air Force is a substandard one its the FOURTH largest in the world.
Well I’m not here to counteract any bodys opinion whether distorted or not of technological superiority .The bottom line is we do not need another war regardless. Its the Iranian oil Bourse that threatens the U-S monopoly on the oil market which uses dollars.Which is what this latest beating of WAR DRUM BY THE BUSH ADMINSTRATION REALLY HAS IN MIND .Behind the guise of the so called WEAPONS PROGRAM nuclear that is of IRAN.Sound Familar?Sadamm Hussiens So called Weapons of Mass Destruction! Another war started by BUSH’s campaign of disinformation for insidious intentions Would be the Ruin Of the UNITED STATES in the World Arena and create Tenfold the potential of Terror attacks in the U-S and in IRAQ. Technology is not everything THE IRANIANS Have Counteracted the superiority of the ABRAMS TANK By ordering hoardes of 50 caliber sniper rifiles and night vision goggles WHICH IN EFFECT Could imbolize the most powerful tank in the world WITH A RIFLE? Not to mention Iran can target are military in IRAQ with the arsenal of missiles they possess. Regardless of the technological superiority of OUR FIGHTER AIRCRAFT the 250 sukhoi -30 fighters IRAN Has ordered is a formidable threat and deterent to starting a war that we Will be on the Losing END in the big picture Anyway.
short sweet and simple. If you american think you attack iran easy than joke on you. and you will also face mighty republic of CHINA, HO! >:(
Well lets put things into perspective ,the russian jets are very good fighters better than f15 /f18 etc they fly faster ,have better missiles ,and more arms /long range capabilities than the us ones ,the f22 ,well it might be a lot better but no one knows till they meet in battle and they need to be better armed,so it will all come down to the armies ,iran good fighters? well they fought iraq for 8 yrs and couldnt win ,but it took the us only a week ,i think that says it all dont you?at the end of the day usa might be bad at some things but war isnt one of them ,even though i think they were very lucky in the 2nd world war in my opinion with mistakes by the other sides ,however now i think they have a great advantage with experience in wars but they need to get their missles up to date 4 sure ,the russian ones are very good ,in fact probaly the best at the moment ,but usa is very good at tactics ,but in hindsight mabey they should have done a deal with sadam at least he kept iran in check and all the iranian fighters in iraq as well and looking at it now no wonder he was attacking them all just like the usa is now .
I can say that if there was a war between the US and Iran , Irans planes will be hidden so they wont be destroyed. If anyone doubts the true american and Europes resolve to not let the terrorist country of iran to have nuclear weapons they are clearly mistaken.Also Russia and china would never risk complete inialation for a shithole country like Iran. Remember the submarines offshore are ready to fire at a moments notice!
This story is pure BULL and it insults me as an individual with an IQ about 50, which is they typical republican IQ that can swallow this shiit as truth. The ENTIRE Iranian air force consists of ONLY 250 planes and that includes fighters, tankers, patrol, trainers, etc. They ONLY have about 50 working fighters and to say they are going to buy 250 is just plain irresponsible. Thats like saying Grenada is going to buy 250 planes!
bilderberg- you cant move ponds if the king has fallen